I agree with Barbara that “taking off” is premature. Not ‘Atheists+’. Sarah Mayhew was called a “fuckface.” Multiple people are still told to rape themselves with porcupines on a daily basis. I have never been impressed by Carrier (I tried to watch the recording of his Skepticon 3 talk, but he made so many factual and reasoning errors that I had to stop at about 20 minutes), but delusions of grandeur are what come to mind when I read that post. It still seems to me like it is contained only within one small corner of the online community. ��}M�W��t��U�swJk�e�YW���jS�U�q�vUl�j5���N��6����tEUW�������^�v�^��U��q��}|u养�s�]���]�E��w;|�����w���Ef ��wz>��y�/�B)*�Mz��>������Wٗ�B���H~Q{�m�u�8^T۶��?L�&S%�?\��XƟ1O]�E�U�[�����Vͧ�^�:��w_�/�λ���p�>����zY~�p���9���oW�_�M^�U��E����d�U煦Kc�m�G��)p�2Y�z�-�mS�uS-Yƍ-s��`�Kw��.kДk��6�>�:�#��9�B��ҵ�E��9��t�����������غ|f.�ܵ� ��! Absolutely not “acceptable”. You asked what should be done to stop this BS, and I told you. One that is supportive of LGBT issues, feminism, people of colour, and one that embraces social justice. August 2, 2019 . We should be able to talk about these issues, but already ‘Atheism+’ seems unwelcoming to those who question it. “Oh no, don’t worry, I haven’t disallowed your post. And that’s his choice. As for anonymous internet threats of rape or violence, they should be reported to the authorities as well, especially if deemed credible. I’ve seen some people on the A+ side actually put off by Carrier’s invective. I’m an atheist plus I’m pro-choice. If it doesn’t, then it is difficult to see how this is different from ‘first wave’ atheism. Are you the Atheist People’s Front? And its usually not. Step 3: if you think I should get involved, and I just despair if you do, then show & tell Another reason is utter intolerance for any diversity of opinion. Notung is now at the Skeptic Ink Network! Atheists plus we protest racism, 837 thoughts on “ New Atheism: The Godlessness That Failed ” darovas November 18, 2019 at 10:40 am. S parks flew at the 2017 MythCon conference on Saturday when British YouTuber and cultural critic Carl Benjamin, aka Sargon of Akkad, exchanged verbal blows and jabs with his interviewer, Thomas Smith, an atheist and skeptic podcast host. Indeed, back when Gay was just a Christian ‘skeptic’, not someone speaking about ‘women’, A+ was happy to ridicule her as well. Are there adequate ways to deal with this in place? Reg: Yea… what? Though Gay is a theist (not a deist, a Christian who believes the stories of Jesus are historically accurate and he died on the cross for our salvation), her speech was happily supported by the Atheist+. Only repetitions of the claims. Paula Kirby was told to kill herself today. Myers constantly tells women that their opinions are invalid because they’re mentally ill. Brian: I don’t want to sell this stuff, it’s only a job. Atheism Plus. Atheists should not be tolerating this in our community. This also applies to things like homeopathy – we might be atheists plus homeopaths without contradiction. The “first wave” of atheism were the traditional philosophers, freethinkers, and academics. (Hamilton, in fact, is a past president of pro-conversion-therapy group NARTH. I mean, of course, the more people join the cause the better, but at the same time, we need to respect that people have different interests, and with only 24 hours in the day, people might choose different activities. 100 examples: The only statement reproduced is one that reflects credit on the painter, in… Adding a + sign to the atheism symbol is fairly obvious and perhaps two groups can think that up independently. All wonderful points here. We cannot use foul language anymore? It is the best thing about A+ I have read so far! Maybe, fewer women are interested in the movement (just like, apparently from what I have read, fewer men than women are interested in church). 2) There are fewer women because there is a threatening unpleasant misogynist enviroment. That way we can all sit round and discuss it. Professor Lennox has debated a number of very prominent atheists. Watson’s behavior has established that her claims cannot be taken at face value. Why exclude them? I do think that she’s serious and not just ‘inflating her ego’. Thanks for the comment. Of course, atheism is compatible with ‘belief in nothing’, but usually atheists will hold other positive beliefs about other issues. حريه الأفكار والاحترام المتبادل أساسيان هنا. Gah. Firstly, it is unclear what homeopathy has to do with atheism. I would hate for the stories of rape threats to be false. Brian: Oh, dead sure. It’s exactly the face we need to help secularism grow. Atheism plus is an attempt to define a new subgroup in the atheist movement - a subgroup that is concerned with atheism plus some elements of social justice. You disgust me. [Long audience applause.] . Atheism and the Problem of Beauty. It just isn’t possible that they are wrong or are ill-equipped to lead. they were in the same bag as, for example, animist tribespeople who sacrifice and undertake all sorts of non-functional activities with regard to various imaginary entities. Reg: Yeah. For instance, one might be an atheist and be pro-life, or a socialist,  or a preference utilitarian, etc. Heck, Atheism Plus IS this very thing for the atheist-skeptics movement. skepticism and rationality. Avoided? Benson’s “threatening” email was nothing of the sort, not even by an overly charitable reading. My prediction is a few weeks. In group/our group members should be treated with respect and an assumption of equality. So what’s the harm? I tend to agree. Dawkins was grossly maligned. Thanks! If we all treated religions as hobbies, (which is really what religious practices are), the other problems become far more important than religions. Brian: Excuse me. I happened to read the post Jen made where she listed out all the ism’s that Atheism+ (A+) will cover and I found it hilarious. Because if you are a member of the other little splinter group, you are a fiend and a traitor. So far, the so called A + movement has given me enough reasons to come to think of them as a godless Christian-like movement, or A †.. What if we believe that atheists+ should oppose hate speech laws? Judith: Are you sure? That’s not a very good approach, if you want people, especially skeptics, atheists, humanists, to be convinced. The atheist Jerry Coyne speaking at a 2013 atheist meeting entitled The Amazing Meeting (TAM). It’s difficult to see what A+ hopes to achieve with the policies of marginalisation and ostracisation that you espouse Richard. Miranda Hale was told to set herself on fire. Atheists have to explain why there is both good and evil, whereas Christians can quickly explain the good and can even explain the evil. An Atheist has no religious belief. In any case, the Atheism Plus website wound up picking a somewhat different symbol resembling an @ si… There will always be an implicit minus sign attached to those who are “only” atheists. It’s exactly the face we need to help secularism grow. I thought freethought was beyond such trivial notions. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am” (Although there is an impressive range of memorabilia to collect .. hmm …). You make some very good points, but I believe that are two separate issues here: Winning souls for Atheism and trying to silence bigots. Private communications have been disclosed. That would be where they think skepticism and rationality leads, of course!”. Atheists plus we fight homophobia and transphobia, Part 1 of 3. An Atheist does not believe in a god or gods, or other supernatural entities. “Oh and a blog dedicated to harassing women who speak up doxed her.” What about those who maintain that gender role is a social construnct in which biology plays little or minimal part? What about a welfare state? I got home from a late shift, and then made a dessert for our staff party tomorrow, so I haven’t read any recents posts. I’ve just been working long days (as I warned in the article itself) and haven’t had time to get to all the hundreds of comments waiting in the queue (and now with the weekend–I don’t work on weekends, I spend those days with my wife–there will be even longer delay).”. On one side were proponents of an atheism explicitly tied to progressive values, such as the biologist PZ Myers, the “atheism plus” movement, and media figures like The Young Turks’ Cenk Uygur and Kyle Kulinski. Also, I would be very interested to learn the names of, oh, 10 people who are already Atheist+’ers (or whatever your preferred moniker will be). Is A+ the People’s Judean Front? Editor-in-Chief of The Onion Scott Dikkers spoke at last year’s Freedom From Religion Foundation conference. Unlike me, she doesn’t live alone, either. That is fucking evil. It is atheism plus a condemnation of sexist, racist, or homophobic trolls. Atheism Plus Freezing Your Peaches. I’d argue that it’s already happened before. The comments within 20 minutes already showed the cracks developing when you try to herd the cats of ism’s. Visit daylightatheism.org for more. In Europe it can be pretty boring! Yep, this is excellent. As McCreight describes it, it seems that the social justice component is the most important part. McCreight writes: I don’t want good causes like secularism and skepticism to die because they’re infested with people who see issues of equality as mission drift. .” Now the A+ people want to take the stereotype that atheists are associated with all aspects of the modern “progressive” ideology and make it official, and if you don’t march in ideological lockstep with them on every single issue, you are an outcast, and in reality a sub-human (If you don’t think that the bloggers on FtB think that people who disagree with them are sub-human, just read PZ’s blog for a while). Thanks for the comment! Condemnation, Free Speech, and Atheism Plus This post relevant to a major point of disagreement in the Atheist Plus discussion. skepticism and rationality. Wagnerites might still hold these beliefs and are of course welcome to join feminist groups, but it does not make much sense for the Wagner Society itself to fight these causes. “There is a new atheism brewing, and it’s the rift we need, to cut free the dead weight so we can kick the C.H.U.D.’s back into the sewers and finally disown them, once and for all.”, “…so we could start marginalizing the evil in our midst…”, “…but it paralleled my more private thinking about the evil among us.”, “Indeed, as the Surly Amy story shows, there are clearly many of us who disregard the happiness of others just to hurt them, mocking or insulting (or even threatening) them merely to please one’s own vanity or self-righteousness, in complete disregard of the pointless misery it causes another human being. I see no harm in that, and examining such claims can be a great learning experience in general. And a final reason is that there are simply less women in the hard sciences than there are men. Are you mad? If you look at the timing, it makes sense. I hate the Religious already. Although Atheism Plus no longer has much of a presence within the atheist movement, many atheists affiliated with the faction continue to argue that the atheist community perpetuates inequality, has a “sexism problem” and that it is an “old boys’ club” (McCreight 2011). Reg: Oh, yeah? Third, evidently “intersectionality” is a key concept, together with "white privilege" and many more. A horrible idea developed to combine several movements: atheism, feminism, L.G.B.T., social justice, and skepticism. Science is not the priority. you say you are an atheist . ( Log Out /  Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. I have my anorak, several spiral-bound notepads, a 2b pencil, and a flask of weak lemon drink. Filter. 2.1.1 James S. Spiegal and unforgiveness as a cause of atheism What do you suggest? TAM is an annual meeting. Being an atheist I want to give a speech about atheism but my professor has one rule the topic of my choosing has be something about american culture or value. It’s like all perspective and reason have been deemed superfluous to requirements and jettisoned. I think they would answer that adding Raelianism would contradict the other principles, e.g. It was transcribed from an audiocassette which had the title, "Atheism: The Case Against God." Khamenei blames Western culture, atheism for coronavirus response failings. Mind you how else could one defend such nonsense. Oh and a blog dedicated to harassing women who speak up doxed her. The talk of raping Skechicks, however, is inappropriate and gross. WATCH ON YOUTUBE. No evidence, just stories. I also feel that it lends support to the (sometimes harmful) notion of ‘atheist beliefs’. A self-educated attorney and atheist, Ingersoll was a Victorian-era rock star who could pack theaters from Texas to New York with people who came from hundreds of miles around to hear “The Great Agnostic” lecture against religion. And trolls. It is atheism plus a condemnation of sexist, racist, or homophobic trolls. Atheism Everything! ( Log Out /  Because they don’t reflect McCreight’s own political views? Dunning was attacked because they didn’t like a picture that he used for an album cover. But it is too narrow, and not inclusive enough. Discover (and save!) Diversity should be encouraged and accommodated, but it should not be the primary goal of a movement that is primarily about something else. ‘Atheist’ describes just one part of my belief system. I have to agree with you and Abbie – making atheism a central feature is exclusionary and contradicts the concept of social justice. For example, one cannot be both an atheist and believe in the Resurrection of Jesus, as belief in the Resurrection requires first that one believes in the Christian conception of God. Thus, “A+” becomes not a movement but a personal cult, under the guise of rationalism, skepticism and critical thinking. This initiative only serves to divide Atheism, into Atheists, and Holier-Than-Thou-Atheists. Brian: Excuse me? 4)  It seems to be exclusionary. This is exactly what I see going on. What I’m not seeing is an alternative response to the problems they are attempting to deal with. Atheism Lawsuit: Illinois Politician Claims Atheist Sign Is 'Hate Speech' William J. Kelly, a Chicago Republican, is suing the Illinois Secretary of State for allowing an atheist sign to be placed next to a nativity scene in the state capitol. I have to disagree. DJ was told that he should quit his job. By Ðavid A. Osorio S • Oct 13, 2012 • 119 comments So far, the so called A+ movement has given me enough reasons to come to think of them as a godless Christian-like movement, or A†. When he did not cave under that pressure and programming such as Jamy Ian Swiss’s speech communicated scope clearly, skeptics became another outgroup to leverage. Looking forward to the documentary’s release, he took time to answer some questions from Evolution News. Crimes, on the other hand, should be immediately reported, although none have occurred outside of the online forums and blogosphere. I especially agree with point #3. Enemy? I’ve been called a bitch by the same people who would faint if the same happened to Watson. The only misogynists I’ve seen in the movement are self-proclaimed feminist men who treat women as “different, weak, and special,” while at the same time trashing those women who do not fit their expectation of how a woman should think. It’s not a worldview, and never could be. %PDF-1.3 These are only some of the stories I’ve seen. Secondly, those who do spent a lot of time debunking homeopathy might have a variety of reasons for doing so. Unfortunately, when you ask Rebecca, Jen, Greta, Amy and other women why they won’t reveal the names of these people, they make excuses, resort to ad hominem, and will probably ban you. by Matt Nelson. You don’t get a more inclusive and friendly movement through ostracism and bullying. I agree with Claus. Sickening. Dare to criticize and you must be projecting or jealous. What happened to the First Amendment? An attempt has been made to get Abbie Smith fired and expelled. I have a feeling the hype over Atheism+ will die out in a month and won’t become famous beyond Freethought Blogs and a couple of other blogs. You can also import text from any other apps. Social justice is not the priority. Take her scoffing at those debunking homeopathy for instance. Join Now! If you really wanted to join the P.F.A., you’d have to really hate the Religious. I have already seen requests for extra doctrines, like animal rights and so forth. Calling the police. Further, constant harping about how misogynistic this community is should cease immediately. Splitters. Thankfully Atheism Plus was short lived and djed out but I wish Hitchens was around to destroy them. Who? It involves positive ethical beliefs in addition to a commitment to rational, philosophical and scientific inquiry. He also banned a transsexual for complaining about comparing the Catholic clergy to transexuals. The Raelians. I wonder what blackmail they have over otherwise rational individuals in order to co-op them into their anti-feminist church cult? They began to vilify D.J. However, I don’t think they are all that tolerant of dissent, unfortunately. Update : @Got Proof I kind of need 3 sources and it has to be a 3 to 4 minute speech. Twas little more than casual dismissive insult, exhortation to GTFO and the mere assertion that a naysayer was irrational or similar, and thus presumably no more need be said in answer to their points. You highlighted many things that I initially thought about this A+ initiative and raised some points that I hadn’t considered. Who were the atheists who wondered if it were immoral to rape a Skepchick? It won’t make anyone go away, it won’t make anyone shut up. However, McCreight’s idea that atheism should be seen as ‘more than just a lack of belief in god’ does not make a lot of sense. She had to leave TAM early, causing a atheist on twitter to suggest to her that she should set herself on fire. Being an atheist I want to give a speech about atheism but my professor has one rule the topic of my choosing has be something about american culture or value. Derek Beres. Stan: Oh. Likewise, with the other women who have received similar threats: No names of these atheists. discrimination at atheist conferences, just as there also should be no such discrimination at Wagner Society meet-ups. I haven’t seen any of the others, and I have no reason to believe her. Any ideas? Fair enough. That dissent, apart from being evil is also presented in religious language, a sin to be repented of, presumably the sincerity and acceptance of repentance to be judged by the hierarchy? Death threats and rape threats are not acceptable. We are all human beings, and courting rituals are normal. Fantastic post, Notung. delusions of grandeur are what come to mind when I read that post. But it would be much worse if women did not take action against those who threaten them with rape – especially if you base a large part of your identity as someone who actively fights such abominations. You need to be careful and clearly distinguish between: 1) There are fewer women than men in the Atheist (etc) movement. The point raised in a comment about feminism being the primary driving force underlying the initiative is very convincing and I would add that there is a desire for power and control as well, as they realized that was not something they could wrestle away from longstanding organizations. There is no need for ‘Wagnerism+’ for those who are Wagnerites plus believe in gay rights and so forth. Atheists plus we use critical thinking and skepticism. If it’s more than some losers on the internet trolling for kicks and you think it’s a legitimate threat, get the police involved, sheesh. by Joe Heschmeyer. Or rather, mocking atheism is just plain free speech (though it may or may not be ignorant and pointlessly cruel). Like any other thing, religion must be criticized, there are a lot of bad things that happen in every religion. Who were the atheists who thought it was funny? Atheists are doing their best to remove God from our nation’s future, and have even rewritten history to try to erase Him from our past. This isn’t that difficult. by Bishop Robert Barron January 26, 2015. Atheism Plus does not bury the “atheism” part but keeps it at the forefront of one’s socio-religious identity. I therefore welcome Atheism Plus as a good next step towards a just resolution of this problem. Feel Free to discuss and Chill! Consider this: We have not heard one single name of those “hundreds of atheists” who, according to Rebecca Watson, has threatened to rape her, thought she should be raped, or that she was too ugly to rape. ... No it isn’t because, you see, free speech doesn’t apply to hate speech, and we all know that the men’s rights movement is nothing but hate speech, therefore not letting us tear down men’s rights’ posters is ALSO hate speech! I posted this nearly 3 days ago……. With Talk, your phone will speak what you type. However, in order to avoid confusion (since Smith has published a book under that same title), …

atheism plus speech

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